3x06: I design a new, high altitude, jet to collect high. At altitude the nose goes up and down until it goes out of control. The Rapier, for example, works great as a high-altitude engine, precisely because it can go so fast. and our Or you need to put a little bit of angle of incidence in your wings, which will reduce drag since you don't have to pitch the entire plane up, but will be stuck at a fixed angle meaning you'll have to pitch up or down anyway during certain phases of the flight that the plane isn't optimised for. Ep. It has two modes: The first, Dry mode, is similar to that of the J-33 "Wheesley" Basic Jet Engine, with a bit more thrust. Not only does it conk out at high altitudes, but also it conks out at high speeds, and you need to be able to go fast to fly up high. Just sounds like the engines can't get enough air, in KSP high speed also generates air intake so I'm guessing what is happening is that you have the initial speed to get to altitude but the lack of air at altitude is starving the engine resulting in lower speed which further reduces air intake and it cascades until either the engine shuts down or you return to denser atmosphere at a lower altitude. Arqade is a question and answer site for passionate videogamers on all platforms. Are you using Stock or NEAR/FAR? The benefits should be obvious. KSP Quick Guides: High Altitude Design and Flying - Stock v.23 Stoober AK 3.32K subscribers Subscribe 21K views 8 years ago This tutorial will cover designing and flying a plane that can soar. Main goals: Auto-trimming. This page was last edited on 22 December 2019, at 20:54. A well-designed jet with this engine and with the afterburner lit, flown properly, can momentarily climb to 30,000 m altitude. Most SSTO space planes would be able to accomplish this easily. In the game, players direct a nascent space program, staffed and crewed by green humanoid aliens known as "Kerbals". Any of my search term words; All of my search term words; Find results in. So if you replace the turbos with basic jets, you will have more thrust from the ground up, and your vessel will weigh slightly less. In the main KSP settings menu you should set the default throttle to 1.0 (technically the above mechjeb setting winds up restoring the default throttle, so it needs to be 1.0) In the attitude adjustment menu make sure you are using the "better controller" Whack the 45 degree phase margin button Whack the restore all other defaults button More air is better. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. Contents 1 Usage 2 Construction 3 Categories 3.1 Airplane 3.2 Seaplane 3.3 Spaceplane 3.4 VTOL 3.5 Glider 3.6 Mothership 4 Operation 4.1 Flight records 5 Notes Usage So Pvt. Orbiting is the most fun one: the higher the orbit, the less speed you need to maintain to stay in orbit, *and* the less air there is, so that's a double-whammy in terms of reducing fuel consumption. Air Intake: Air Intake shows the amount of force your engine uses to suck air into the turbine. - Insane TWR didn't help. its rather flat but its a solid surface. Using Kolmogorov complexity to measure difficulty of problems? Well, this game isn't a perfect flight simulator yet, so it will be difficult to figure out. To avoid running out of fuel altogether, I have a second plane with small tanks (no oxidizer) attached directly to the jet engines, and the rockets attached behind the fuselage, which is entirely oxidized tanks. Technically, any rocket engine is also a jet engine as it forms a high-speed jet of reaction mass. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. She has a horrible turn rate and oscillates a couple of thousand meters at cruise, but it's flyable. It's also worth noting that this engine has the widest thrust vectoring range of all of the jet engines, with a full 10-degree range in all directions. At about 400-500m/s (~15km), the two engines are even. Put a couple of radial mount parachutes just above the com and add a reaction wheel. They will someday, but they don't now. probably the easiest place to land in the system as terminal velocity is survivable for a craft less kerman. That's sub-optimal, because having the fuselage pitched like that means it'll have more drag than it otherwise would have. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? So, to correct " is below crosshairs", what you need to do is to add a little AoA to the wings. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Its an approximation missing someelements. Upload or insert images from URL. No, I think it's correct, unless I've got a brain fart going, here. As high and fast as you can go without engine flameout: preferably ~2000 m/s at 25-30 km (and yes, that's almost orbital velocity). If it's below the cross-hairs, you need a little more AoA. A temple in the desert (6 29 47 S 141 40 3 W) known as Tut-Un Jeb-Ahn, although this name can only be seen when a vessel crashes into it. Designing a High Altitude Jet | KSP: Making Space Home Mike Aben 24.8K subscribers Join Subscribe 85 Share 3.4K views 1 year ago Ep. Download (104.45 MiB) License: CC BY-NC-SA 4.0 Game Version: 1.8.1 Downloads: 371,115 Author: blackheart612 Mod Website: Forum Thread Support this mod: Donate Followers: 626 Outdated Mod This mod is not known to work with the latest version of Kerbal Space Program. Anyway thanks in advance. Double your speed, you need twice as much fuel. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. It is boosted into space by a launch vehicle, then re-enters Earth's atmosphere and lands as a spaceplane. In this case lots of fuel is the wrong approach, I can get more than half way around Kerbin on 2 cans of Jet Fuel and a turbojet if I glide most of it. I checked the wiki before I wrote my question, it seems I overread this paragraph Something that I think has become less clear since someone updated the wiki. Of course, this thing has very limited range, speed and acceleration because of the extra weight. (Disclaimer: I've never used FAR myself; all of the above is based on my experience with stock aerodynamics. This is the first version. I followed a similar strategy. Do plugins for Kerbal Space Program work on unix? Or try using SRBs instead. Privacy Policy. Your previous content has been restored. Delta wings are able to work better since the lack of lift per square area is compensated by having larger area to provide lift. But you'll need to unlock: Which cost 300 science. Slap that behind a plane you'll be able to go beyond 20km without any trouble. Imagine that first plane but with the bubble cockpit and the old style round intakes. As long a you can fly faster, the lower density at altitude can be compensated for. If you enter the Mun's SOI, it immediately counts as "In Space High over Mun" until you get below 60km Mun altitude. Any advices for building a vehicle for this task? The sweet spot for the upper atmo engines, I find, is between 10k and 12k. ksp high altitude plane. I should perhaps start trying out NEAR to get ready of 0.90, though. Another approach, which I was managing with some success before I figured out jets, is to build a rocket and catapult yourself towards the measurement point. But a rockets can do it. KSP Career: Episode 13 - High Altitude Surveys Mike Aben 28.5K subscribers Subscribe 7.7K views 7 years ago Day 114: A busy day at the KSC with three missions, the highlights being the launch. I have enough patience to do the slow flying, but is it horribly inefficient? Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. I got this game so I could over-engineer rockets, so I mostly ignore the airplanes. It seems to be based on the General Electric F-404 Afterburning Turbofan, which shares the same name and maximum thrust (85 kN dry). Been a while since I've flown stock*, but I've heard that, for maximum efficiency, you want one turbojet for every 7.5 tons, and about four ram intakes for each turbojet. Whiplash is the engine you would want to use on a plane meant to go 20km. I currently have a contract where I'm asked to take crew reports at certain spots on Kerbal at an altitude of 18,000m. The most efficient way is, of course, to make a high altitude (or space) plane. Though I'm still working on learning to be better at space planes. I looked into the .cfg files and there are no special properties allocated to them. The Boeing X-37, also known as the Orbital Test Vehicle (OTV), is a reusable robotic spacecraft. It is stable but can not maintain altitude. The U-2 is probably the highest altitude aircraft still flying. At sea level, it produces 120 kn thrust, but at 15 km altitude, it only produces 13.7 kn of thrust, barely enough to provide any thrust to climb higher, Long and narrow wing has less surface area to provide lift, and at higher altitude, the atmospher is so thin that the lift generated by long and narrow wings is insufficient for sustainable flight. Even up there the plane acts squirrely. as a rule of thumb they all lose thrust at higher altitudes and at high velocities. Each stage of the rocket has a delta-v that depends on the stage fuel mass and the engine specific impulse. You cannot paste images directly. This makes jets built using this engine considerably more maneuverable. Once I'm near or in the target area, I set the throttle to 0 and start the Swivel. In the stock atmosphere, the benefits of moving faster outweigh almost everything else. Don't rely on the efficiency indicator! A destructible memorial to the old Mk. What's the difference between a power rail and a signal line? It flames out at 25,000. Remember that you need to have intakes somewhere in line with the engine to function at that altitude. Basically there are two things that limit your maximum speed: thrust and speed of sound and with that your maximum altitude. I've been trying my hand at some High altitude speedy planes for a while now, but can't seem to get a hang of the altitudes that each engine likes, I know kerbal isn't earth, so looking up the crushing altitude of say the sr71, doesn't seem to apply, but I was hoping that others experiences would help me. Alternatively, you can assign the afterburner toggle (labelled "switch mode") to an action group if you wish to activate it with a hotkey. Secondly don't think of engines working better at different altitudes, think of them working better with different air intake quantities. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. You are simply running out of atmosphere (i.e. That will unlock: "Whiplash" Turbojet Which is capable of high altitude, high speed flight. I started by attaching two LV-909 rocket engines to a regular low-atmosphere plane: In this save, I don't have custom action groups yet, so I'm using the RCS control to toggle between jet and rocket modes. I don't have the numbers handy, but you can expect something like 400m/s at 15km. I generally don't fuss with AoI unless I'm making a long range cruiser. EDIT: Didn't notice you were using FAR. There is no such thing as "so high radar can not detect it", since radar can detect things in outer space. A full suite of flaps on the trailing edges of the main wings give it exceptional low-speed lift, and small hydroplane steps mounted on each side of the fuselage bottom help lift it out of the water (lowering water drag) during takeoff runs. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Make sure we're on the same page with terminology. The J-404 "Panther" Afterburning Turbofan is a jet engine added in version 1.0.5. You can post now and register later. Using indicator constraint with two variables, Is there a solution to add special characters from software and how to do it. All other versions are slower and lower and unstable in turns. When you are surrounded by plenty of air there will of course be no need to suck in air artificially but the higher you get the less dense the air around you becomes and in order to make sure that your engines have enough oxygen to burn the fuel it needs to suck air in forcefully. Turbojets are so ridiculously efficient that it doesn't really matter. The second, Wet mode, uses the afterburner to produce thrust almost equal to the J-X4 "Whiplash" Turbo Ramjet Engine, but at a considerably reduced fuel efficiency. alternatively, combine a liquid fuel rocket into your plane. Evidence. Highest and fastest possible is best. Check out the website and try the game out for yourself :Dhttps://kerbalspaceprogram.com/ Here's Mr. Manley using it in his tutorial: @Pvt.Grichmann: I think it's at specific locations on Kerbin, not just anywhere above 18km. Will post my results. In KSP2, you are a rocket scientist who must build and test rockets, spaceships, and planes. You are just about at maximum speed and at the same time very close to stall speed. You get tons of thrust if you put it into "wet" mode, but you lose fuel efficiency. There are no requirements as far as size or power are concerned, as the AI Pilot is capable of flying pretty much anything - from tiny scout planes to oversized freight craft. I've since shaved that down more but that was by going even higher and even faster). Personally, I don't enjoy survey contracts on Kerbin. 600+ m/s) and low altitudes (e.g. lost birth certificate near berlin; ksp high altitude plane. Challenges What am I doing wrong here in the PlotLegends specification. http://www.youtube.com/user/Cruzanak?sub_confirmation=1Quicklinks to topics in this videoJet Engine Concepts: 0:30Air Intakes: 1:13Flameouts: 2:22Control Surfaces: 5:08Flying Tips: 5:57This video will go over everything that you need to know about to design a capable plane that can fly in the thinnest of atmospheres. Aircraft can be very temperamental to fly, especially on the keyboard. jet engine efficiency in this game is based on built in thrust curves. I decided to look into that two intakes thing, and it turns out to make 11-12 m/s difference at 19,000m with my plane. Ok, the panther engine is still not good enough. If it's above the cross-hairs, you need a little less. high-1 A Screenshot of Kerbal Space Program By: miklkit This is the current version. If it's below the cross-hairs, you need a little more AoA. *I use FAR these days, which basically means completely replacing every spaceplane and rocket you ever designed to account for its much more realistic aerodynamics. It'll probably be more efficient with more intakes, but I wouldn't increase the number of engines. Use the reaction wheel to hold your attitude slightly nose down as you float down and you can guide yourself like a paraglider. You can do that by right-clicking the engine and clicking "Toggle Mode." Air Intake) and how fast your aircraft ultimately flies (air resistance/altitude)! Yes. Since gravity is effectively lower, they don't need as much wing area to maintain altitude-- which, in turn, means less drag, which makes for more efficient flight. Additionally please know that .16 will feature new code that will change the way space planes work in every aspect. Also, Valley and Theomon fly to different corners of Kerbin and three mapping satellites are launched. Subscribe - http://www.youtube.com/c/MikeAben?sub-confirmation=1 Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/MikeAbenPatreon supporters receive early, ad-free, access to videos, kOS and craft files, and more. Discord - https://discord.gg/HTvT7dZ Making Space Home Playlist - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB3Ia8aQsDKhqoFyoZ4d33MG7rS9KmDm_0:00 - Designing the Dudley Mk16:42 - Test Flights \u0026 Iterating13:45 - Col. Valley take the Seaplane to the Northern Ice Shelf19:30 - Launch \u0026 Insertion of the Maxwell Vb21:04 - Col. Theomon \u0026 Orlin Visit the Badlands in the Panther24:20 - Launch \u0026 Ejection of the Maxwell VI26:34 - Designing the SENTINEL 129:47 - Launch \u0026 Insertion of the Maxwell VIIFull List of Mods: Aviation Lights Chatterer Community Tech Tree Crew R\u0026R Croud Sourced Science Contract Configurator Contract Packs: Bases and Stations Reborn CommNet Relays Exploration Plus Field Research Kerbal Academy Tourism Plus Contracts Window+ Decoupler Shroud Easy Vessel Switch Kerbal Alarm Clock Kerbal Attachment System Kerbal Construction Time Kerbal Engineer Redux Kerbal Inventory System Kerbalism kOS KRASH Maneuver Node Evolved Navball Alignment Indicator Near Future Aeronautics Near Future Construction Near Future Electrical Near Future Propulsion Near Future Solar Near Future Spacecraft Persistent Rotation Rational Resources RCS Build Aid Continued Restock Restock+ SCANsat Scrapyard SMART Parts Stage Recovery Stockalike Station Parts Expansion Redux TAC Fuel Balancer Texture Replacer Trajectories Transfer Window Planner Universal Storage 2 Unkerballed Start Waypoint Manager One problem is i'm running stock on career mode and only have 30 part to spare, so large planes are out of the question. The idea is to slow the plane to a stall above your landing spot the pop the parachute. But my guess is that these same general principles would probably apply to FAR, and that all that would change would be the numbers involved. Is it suspicious or odd to stand by the gate of a GA airport watching the planes? Building a High Altitude Jet | Stream pt. If you've attached them to your fuselage with zero AoA, what that means is that when you fly, you're going to have to have the entire plane pitched slightly above in order to generate lift. One of my planes is small and agile, and can easily enough glide to a safe landing even if the rockets consume all the fuel. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Note that KSP planes get one substantial speed benefit that's much more pronounced than IRL aircraft, due to the freakishly small planet sizes: they're actually flying at a large fraction of orbital velocity. This works, but it's not optimal. Why do many companies reject expired SSL certificates as bugs in bug bounties? I'm going to try adding a small solid fuel rocket engine toned down to get the initial height then dump it, as well as check into that high end gear mentioned. I was hoping that the new intakes would give it the added altitude. "Whiplash" Turbojet. Cheers again fellas. You may be correct and that 3 engine plane is a lemon. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. When I say ", You know you've nailed it correctly if, when you're in level flight, your. What you should be concerned about is atmospheric drag, and that's minimized by high-altitude flight. The easiest "default" way to build a plane in KSP-- i.e. 101 kPa 1 atm Scale Height 5000 m Atmospheric Height 69 077.553 m 1.010-6 atm Minimum Temprature -40.19 C 232.96 K Maximum Temprature 20 C 293.15 K Oxygen Present Yes Contents 1 Kerbin 2 Topography 3 Kerbal Space Center 4 Atmosphere 4.1 The Troposphere 4.2 The Stratosphere 4.3 The Thermosphere 4.4 The Exosphere 5 The Kerbin System 5.1 The Mun If you upgrade to the panther (or get one on a contract) that engine can get you much higher. Grichmann's answer has been the most reliable way I've found to complete these missions. Thanks, I'll go try to stuff a few extra turbojets and intakes on my plane Do you know how many intakes/turbojet are needed to run in the regime you described? Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Your answer got me in the right direction, though I ended up with a different design (see my own answer). It is designed to aid in player-controlled flight on generic (space)plane, providing a soft layer between user joystick\keyboard input and control surface outputs. General Electric F-404 Afterburning Turbofan, Stratus-V Cylindrified Monopropellant Tank, Kerbodyne KR-2L+ "Rhino" Liquid Fuel Engine, LFB KR-1x2 "Twin-Boar" Liquid Fuel Engine, T-1 Toroidal Aerospike "Dart" Liquid Fuel Engine, S1 SRB-KD25k "Kickback" Solid Fuel Booster, IX-6315 "Dawn" Electric Propulsion System, AE-FF1 Airstream Protective Shell (1.25m), AE-FF3 Airstream Protective Shell (3.75m), PB-NUK Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator, https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=J-404_%22Panther%22_Afterburning_Turbofan&oldid=95515. Remembering the FW TA152 and the U2 I put long wings on it and while its turn rate makes an airliner look like a fighter plane it is stable enough at 19000m. When added to a plane it allows tuning of the controls vs speed/altitude/G load/other factors. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. I did some testing and found that the turbojets get the best Isp around 5.2 km altitude, so I was thinking of flying at that altitude. Even better, burn a little more, and you can pop out of the atmosphere for a bit and avoid all that nasty drag stuff. . As said above, the Wheesley is specifically designed as a low altitude engine. Which lets you go faster, which lets you climb higher. This thread is quite old. Which makes this engine ideal for those missions which require doing many science activities above particular altitudes. The most efficient way is, of course, to make a high altitude (or space) plane. 3x06: I design a new, high altitude, jet to collect high atmospheric science. Planes in Space. Very cool. If not, please explain why, which I know you have no problem doing! If you nudge your wing's angle up slightly with rotate tool then it'll move your prograde closer to your direction of flight and significantly reduce drag. ksp high altitude planebad bunny tour 2022 tickets ksp high altitude plane. How can I make money in the new career mode? The X-37 is operated by the United States Space Force for orbital spaceflight missions intended to demonstrate reusable space technologies. Sustained flight at over 20km requires at a minimum the Panther in Afterburning mode. Pvt. Air Flow + max. That would oscillate slowly between 16000m and 17000m but was otherwise fully controllable. edited 6 yr. ago. A little while back I spent a long time trying to circumnavigate Kerbin on the least liquid fuel possible (i posted the record to the sub: 254 units of fuel. AoA and G-force moderation. If released at a speed of 700 or more m/s and an altitude of 20 or more km, the satellite will achieve orbit with its second stage mostly full, leaving it with approximately 1600 m/s of delta-V -- enough to achieve lunar or interplanetary orbits and, on small bodies, landings. Pasted as rich text. Now I have a plane that will fly around the world at an altitude of the low-20s. Immediately starting rocket engines at full throttle turned out to make most of my aircrafts totally unstable, turning them up gradually worked way better. - "In Space Low" means your craft is inside the "Space Border" altitude and in an orbital path. I don't have that cockpit in my career game yet, but maybe it will work with the other one. Is there a single-word adjective for "having exceptionally strong moral principles"? Using very light "engine rich" planes and "reverse swooping" (building velocity at 10km then gently curving up) you can temporarily get above 20km with Wheesely and Juno. Isn't that backwards snark? Paste as plain text instead, Because when your engine has to take in air forcefully it automatically means there isn't enough surrounding your engine and that again means that air density and therefor air resistance must be pretty low too. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. So if you want to make a plane go as fast as possible, you want to minimise both angle of attack and angle of incidence necessary to sustain level flight at your target speed and altitude. I also set it to enable the cockpit's reaction wheels to improve control at high altitude, and close air intakes to reduce drag. Note that you need to activate the afterburner ("Wet Mode") manually. To get there, you're going to want to climb at the fastest rate you can manage to 18-20 km, at which point you should mostly level off and start accelerating horizontally. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Along with rockets, planes are one of KSP's most commonly referenced kinds of vessel, and are a vessel type . Yes. Is anywhere a list of the altitude levels (I don't know a better term) available? Note that keeping the plane weight low is critical, only carry a very small amount of fuel. I didn't succeed with his design, though; I always ended up having somehow unstable airplanes. Third, which I haven't given a good try, would be a carefully-timed deorbit maneuver so you come down through your desired location as you fall from space. My 'plane science' is more advanced than my 'rocket science' (career mode) because I got tired of seeing all the high-altitude missions I had on the books and wanted to finish them. Your link has been automatically embedded. Let me. EDIT: Essentially, make like an SR-71, if an SR-71 didn't have cooling problems limiting it to Mach 3.4. even stranger is that the surface is textured. Is it correct to use "the" before "materials used in making buildings are"? The returns are diminishing so eventually you will hit a ceiling. I've added more engines, more intakes to no avail. The Rapier, for example, works great as a high-altitude engine, precisely because it can go so fast. Keep in mind that wheesley engine's performance decreases significantly as the altitude increases. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. For comparison, the second most maneuverable engine is the CR-7 R.A.P.I.E.R. How to know if you've nailed it perfectly: when you're cruising in level flight, you want the marker to be precisely centered in your navball cross-hairs. As you found out, it basically konks out at 15km. Kerbal Space Program 2 . If the wings are flat and your plane steadily loses altitude in level flight at a given speed (as most designs will by default), it means you either need to pitch up slightly, increasing the angle of attack and keeping your vertical velocity at 0 by flying up slightly to compensate for the pull of gravity that lift isn't compensating for. Unfortunately, there's no simple rule to tell you what the angle needs to be when you're building the plane-- it depends on lots of variables, such as your weight, drag, intended cruising altitude, intended cruising speed. It may work with stock too, I just don't know. 1.) I don't recall if they model aspect ratio, but either way, the struts are murder and the delta wing has so much more wing that it'll still have more lift. The thrust of jets (turbo or otherwise) depends on airspeed: basics deliver more thrust at low speeds, while turbojets only really come into their own when you fly very fast (which also means flying very high, 20km and over). And how many km can I expect to get per v (as calculated by Engineer redux Kerbin atmospheric stats, I know this is weird with planes)? This thread is quite old. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Cookie Notice if you just go into the SPH, slap together some parts like Legos, and go-- is to attach them with zero AoA. Thanks for asking this, I've been struggling with the same problem in career mode. Redoing the align environment with a specific formatting, Trying to understand how to get this basic Fourier Series. You arent doing anything wrong. rev2023.3.3.43278. Powered by Invision Community, Thanks, I'll go try to stuff a few extra turbojets and intakes on my plane, I was generally under the impression that basic jets were mostly deadweight on high-performance aircraft: [] at hypersonic velocities.
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