Instead of sending armies out to take Minas Tirith, Sauron would have had the majority of his forces concentrated on his borders and sweeping the land in front of it with orcs, men, trolls, and Nazgul. What exactly happened to Sauron when the Ring was destroyed? As with Gandalf or Galadriel, the Ring would comply with the good intent of their first efforts. Some interesting conjecture, but you're forgetting that if anyone replaced Sauron as the "master" of the One Ruling Ring, they would sever Sauron's tie to the ring and essentially reduce him to an ineffectual spirit who could no longer interact with the physical world. Narsil was made by the dwarves not elves. He eventually became the leader of the Istari because of all of them, he had most studied the devices of Sauron of old. In other words, he learned about dark magic and Ringlore and knew the enemy the best of the Istari. In fact, as recent graduate of Greensboro College's honors program, Blake wrote his thesis on Star Wars and its religious connections. What are the benefits of digital signatures? By this Tolkien shows that disobedience for good reasons has merit. Many of the vague abilities listed above are also part and parcel to those abilities listed below. He would have also learned where the Fellowship was broken and knowing the Ringbearer's true purpose would assume his destination would be the Black Gate which indeed it was until Gollum convinced Frodo otherwise. Cookie Notice https://www.patreon.com/thebrokensword-----Also if you want to support in a different way then check out our Teespring page where we upload original designs for our merch! It only takes a minute to sign up. I recall the Narsil having been forged by the elves, using elvish magic. Still it was a meritorious disobedience and worthy of praise. Short story taking place on a toroidal planet or moon involving flying, Acidity of alcohols and basicity of amines, The difference between the phonemes /p/ and /b/ in Japanese, Replacing broken pins/legs on a DIP IC package. But it will still never truly be his & he will have to continually fight to dominate it as the One Ring wants to return to its master, who cannot be banished until the Ring is destroyed. If not for Gandalf, Gondor might've fallen to Sauron. He wanted the One Ring. Also there is the forest of Fangorn between them I think. You must log in or register to reply here. Yet, it's also possible that Sauron would have triumphed and regained the Ring for himself. Today we jump back in time to one of our older videos at one of our What If scenarios! But what does Saruman do now? My understanding of the crushingly unavoidable fate which is the history of Middle Earth says that the One Ring belongs to Sauron and no other. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. In the appendices it mentions the three assaults on Lorien, during the final days of the struggle. He and his servants already knew of his involvement in the attack on the Fellowship and the capture of the hobbits. A place where magic is studied and practiced? Had Isuldur done the wise thing, and pitched that sucker in the crack of doom, that would have been it. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. It has been suggested that the reason why Saruman lost access to magic after the . (Letter 246). But I've been thinking. Because the One Ring was the master to all . If you preorder a special airline meal (e.g. Gandalf, however, likely took Saruman's position, not knowing that Saruman had invented the story of it washing out to sea and was looking for the One Ring for himself. In his actual presence none but very few of equal stature could have hoped to withhold it from him. It allowed him to recover multiple times after his physical body got destroyed. It wasn't really a surprise. Saruman is ruined when the Riders of Rohan defeat his army and Merry and Pippin prompt the Ents to destroy Isengard. The Ring still wants to be with its true master. The one ring would have made him more like what he was before he left on his mission to middle-earth, only corrupted and evil. We'll probably never know. The three, which Celebrimbor made, were not made to gain dominion over others. . It's possible Saruman would have been able to defeat Sauron. Who controlled the Seeing Stone of Minas Anor? For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Sauron would then have suspended his campaign against Minas Tirith, and instead sent his armies north-west, through Rohan towards Isengard. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. What about Galadrial? He's the anti-hero in his own story who spends time with the Blue Wizards in the East, heads up the White Council, and eventually . Is there a single-word adjective for "having exceptionally strong moral principles"? He concealed his identity and ran away whenever he was confronted. Narsil was no ordinary sword, and the Numenoreans weren't ordinary men either. If Gandalf proved the victor, the result would have been for Sauron the same as the destruction of the Ring; for him it would have been destroyed, taken from him for ever. In the case of vague powers the One Ring would enhance one's powers based on one's strengths. Maybe, though i dont know that much about Sauman's power and. To a lesser degree Faramir's disobedience also saved the Quest. When Sauron was in Dol Guldur, he lay dormant most of the time. Whats the threshold of power for a wielder of the one ring to defeat Sauron? This just had to be the best designed set, even better than the 2017 UCS Millennium Falcon! Sauron was not a run of the mill foe and an ordinary blade wielded by an ordinary man would not have sufficed. Tolkein himself said that it would have been a difficult battle, and might have gone either way, but that One of the true great powers could have dedfeated Sauron by using the Ring. The question of what Saruman would have done therefore becomes moot since it seems inevitable that Sauron would have been the stronger. Seem's strange when the ring's main purpose was to rule over the rings/leaders? **Chief among the powers of the ring that were feared by the White Council was the fact that if Sauron put it on now, all that had been done by the Wise using the three rings would be revealed to him, as would their minds, if they did not take off the rings. Chief among the powers of the ring that were feared by the White Council was the fact that if Sauron put it on now, all that had been done by the Wise using the three rings would be revealed to him, as would their minds, if they did not take off the rings. The thing is, it's worth wondering what would have happened if Frodo had failed. Loyalty is an important theme in Tolkien's world and obedience to authority is paramount in a medieval setting as in Middle-Earth. Tolkiens trilogy its even plastered on the cover of several editions of the books. Unfortunately, Sauron had got on the wrong side of a particularly powerful race: the Nmenreans.The isle of Nmenr was a realm of men that sat apart from Middle-earth and those who lived there were more powerful than the men seen elsewhere in The Lord of . Knowing where he ends up would make the Strangers current journey all the more fascinating. Again Aragorn refuses it, apparently without any internal struggle whatsoever. But Saruman was always too prideful for his companions. Saruman arrived in Middle-earth midway through the Third Age, along with Gandalf and Radagast. Although he never appears directly in the books and is only shown in the movies in a flashback to the War of the Last Alliance, his corruptive influence is felt nearly everywhere in Middle-Earth. Got caught and lost a mind-to-mind battle. Would Saruman have been able to defeat Sauron? Saruman wants to be Saurons only servant. The eagles cant carry the Fellowship to Mordor because Gandalf cant simply summon a squadron of birds to divebomb Mount Doom. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. His Spirit would continue in some astral realm, and would use His real weapon: TIME. The one ring would have made him more like what he was before he left on his mission to middle-earth, only corrupted and evil. It was his own and under his will. its forging) to end (the . If he followed the strategy I've mentioned, his fighters would have to deal with the feisty Rohirrim, and would also run the risk of a flank attack from Gondor, before they could even get near Isengard. If any artists would like us to remove their artwork, or add anything additional to credit you, please contact us and we will sort it straight away! Gandalf and Galadriel both seem to think that they could take the One, and replace Sauron - if they can so could Saruman. Rings of Power (and a touch of Wheel of Time), Ignore/Block Essentials, Paid Registrations by. What would have happened if Saruman got the ring? Sauron originally made the One Ring to enhance his ability to influence and suppress or control the wills of other beings, specifically the Children of Ilvatar (Elves, Dwarves, and Men). Had Isuldur done the wise thing, and pitched that sucker in the crack of doom, that would have been it. The first thing you need to realize is just how long a gap there was between the two trilogies. If we have not credited an artist, it is because we could not find an owner of the art. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. On the surface, Saruman seems like one of the simplest Lord of the Rings characters to define. Tolkien says in Letter 246 that the Ring is not only comparable to "a devastating weapon" (which Frodo doesn't know how to use) but also to "an object of terror in their religious cult, by which they had been conditioned to treat one who wielded it with servility". It may not display this or other websites correctly. Seem's strange when the ring's main purpose was to rule over the rings/leaders? He reasoned that his total control of Middle . If the Stranger is actually Gandalf, think about it from a character development standpoint. In the Silmarillion we have Iluvatar's strongest creation falling from grace.In many ways Saruman's fall is the 3rd Age equivalent. What happens next? Saruman had an opportunity to take a Ring of Power, but didn't. Was the ring more risk than it was worth? Saruman is one of few "grey" characters in the books, meaning he's neither gone fully evil or good. For The War of the Rohirrim anime, one answer might draw on the "canon" of the Peter Jackson films. )https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpgaqH-cKuqvfKr1NL-yudg-----Don't forget to check out our Official website!www.thebrokensword.co.ukIf you want to support the channel, you can help us on our Patreon page. Sauron was much the stronger, but a lot of his power is in the ring. Anybody else who bore it (non-stop) would eventually be drawn to him, where he would get the Ring back. When it comes to the Stranger, played by Daniel Weyman, we learned he is one of the Istari, but we did not learn his actual name. Indeed, Saruman needed no ring to become enslaved. vegan) just to try it, does this inconvenience the caterers and staff? There's this passage that describes what happened after the death of his physical body: To the dismay of those that stood by, about the body of Saruman a grey mist gathered, and rising slowly to a great height like smoke from a fire, as a pale shrouded figure it loomed over the Hill. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. Why does Gollum calling the ring his own not alert Sauron? Why does Gandalf seek counsel from Saruman about the One Ring after leaving Frodo in the Shire? Please don't forget to subscribe to stay up to date with all future content! The one, and the nine created fearful dominance, fraught with majesty, and terror. Sauron w. Even though Frodo had a 4-5 day head-start further east and would be entering the Dead Marshes on March 1st, Saruman would also have had a head-start on everyone else in terms of knowledge and certainty. All credit must go to the talented artists. We know of his ultimate betrayal against Middle-earth, maybe especially against his fellow Wizards and the Valar. Not unless Saruman got the ring. Saruman had full control of his army, which is why the Hobbits were being brought to him (because they maybe had the ring), instead of immediately to Sauron (who at the time of their capture, they were much closer to). The Rise Of LOTR's Witch-king Of Angmar. We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Latest Blog Post: Jacks Bad Movies Black Adam (2022). Hes of the same order of beings as Sauron, so he certainly has enough power to effectively use the ring. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. When Gandalf meets Saruman in Orthanc, he notices that Saruman is wearing a ring. The One Ring has a number of powers and depending on what information (particularly regarding the Middle Earth RPG) you will get very vague to very specific capabilties for the One Ring. Would he have given the Ring back to Sauron or would he have kept the ring and contested Sauron for power over Middle-earth? Gandalf found out that Saruman had abandoned his mission when the White Wizard asked him to join forces with Sauron. Since both are immortal, Saruman is going to be tortured for a long, long, long, long, LONG time. First off, it gives us an idea of how dangerous the Ring is- if the head of the Istari and White Council can . He now lives with his family in Lynchburg VA and is an avid outdoorsman. After all, they would both want the other one's full and utter . Feel free to contact him by email at hawkins.blake12@gmail.com, or find him on Facebook. Please message us if we have not credited you! In those, Saruman appears to harness the weather to command the snowstorm on the pass of Caradhras that dramatically halts the progress of the Fellowship. Answer (1 of 13): If Saruman acquired the One Ring and had time to learn to use it, then he would go to war against Sauron. How might the Ring have helped Saruman in his empire-building? As mentioned, the Valar sent the Istari (who are Maiar spirits) to Middle-earth. Gandalf feared the power the ring would give him. Is he stronger than the will of the ring? What If SARUMAN managed to get his hands on the One Ring and how that . So it is my assumption that Saruman wanted the One Ring so he could forge his own Ring of Power. Basically it took a super-human with a super-sword to chop the ring off of Sauron's hand and he only did that with a lucky hit. What TV series related to the "Matter of Middle-earth" would you prefer to see? It's interesting here that since both Sauron and Saruman were in origin Maiar of Aule, they may be expected to have some knowledge of each other, and that they would have some idea of each other's strengths and weaknesses. I would think that Saruman, a Maia, would be in that category. That he will never do now." Saruman with the Ring would presumably have tried to do what Tolkien says Galadriel or Gandalf might have done, if they have succumbed to the temptation of accepting the Ring: What would have happened if Saruman had gotten the One Ring? Today we jump back in time to one of our older videos at one of our What If scenarios! Middle-earth & J.R.R. These are not some sort of machine gun, or beam weapon that is just leveled at the enemy, by anyone who happens to wear them. If you know how to use it, its an *extremely* powerful magical artifact. Could he really do anything with it? Saruman didn't know what Gandalf wanted to say, but he could guess. Saruman later describes himself as "Ring-maker" when taunting Gandalf. Lucky hit or not, he was vulnerable to a mere sword with no great magical ability or anything displayed that showed the ring as some huge magnifier of magical ability. 4 What if Saruman had never been corrupted? The Eye of Sauron is one of the most iconic symbols associated with J.R.R. That's when the Rohirrim attacked, allowing the Hobbits to escape into Fangorn forest. In conclusion, if a Maia (Gandalf or Saruman) would get and use the ring, a bitter fight to the end would ensue between the keeper of the ring and Sauron, a fight even more bitter than the one between elves and orcs, Gondor and Mordor, much like an evil kinstrife to the death. Does it shoot bolts of kickarse out of it's hilt? Saruman wasnt an elf, or even a man. (OK, just a Numenorean with the largest army and navy in all of history.) As Istari, they were to exhort the free peoples of the world in preparation for a possible future conflict with Sauron. That means Frodo had to destroy the Ring to destroy Sauron for good. In fact, he had started searching for the One Ring (and found Isildur's remains) well before the events of The Hobbit. On February 26, 3019 Eomer, Third Marshal of the Riddermark, set out against orders from his king to hunt an orc band coming from the east. As Sauron once was, Saruman, a Maia of Aule, became absorbed in Ring-lore as he studied Sauron's evil works. Ultimately, we dont know who the Stranger is, aside from being an Istar, or a wizard. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. Tolkien's complex writings and retcons don't reveal a crystal-clear answer about Saruman arriving first, but if you go by The Silmarillion, Saruman did. #2. Sauron was the master ring-maker in LOTR, but Saruman also forged a ring of power so that he could eventually challenge the Dark Lord. What if the Stranger is Saruman? Elemental Staffs. By this Tolkien shows that disobedience for good reasons has merit. That's information that either could potentially use to tip the balance, but perhaps Saruman would also have had awareness that a contest with Sauron was one that he couldn't possibly win? cbr.com - Blake Hawkins 14h. The three created majesty of a different sort, and magnified the loyalty of those who already were loyal, rather than coercing by fear. The Uruk-hai capture Frodo and Sam at Amon Hen, thus Saruman gains possession of the most powerful of the Rings of Power, which carries in it, a greater part of Sauron's inherent might. Saruman was a wizard and warlord, in a fortress controlled by himself, garrisoned by orcs and men, and separated from Mordor by regions which were not Sauron-friendly. Forces from Mordor and Rhun would have been sent to fight their way through Rohan, leaving Minas Tirith undefeated to the south. Read more on cbr.com. He'd have used his bird spies to scour the area and sent out Uruks on wargs and men on horses. He believed he could fake an alliance with the Dark Lord while ultimately finding the ring for himself and ruling Middle Earth. It might be that if Saruman had the Ring he would, in a Maiar way, then become Sauron in the same way. After that, in the Undying Lands, Sauron was more powerful. With possession of the one ring he would have replaced Sauron (would have wiped him out entirely). Did she think she could have avoided being drawn to Sauron if she did seize the Ring? Saruman was most skilled in Ring Lore, save Sauron. Nazgul were formidable opponants, under the right circumstances. He said yes!" The pair had met through mutual friends years ago, but had an immediate spark when they reconnected last year. Two Maiar duking it out at their full strength would have brought ruin to much of Middle-earth, and that was exactly what the Valar had hoped to avoid in the first place. If a law is new but its interpretation is vague, can the courts directly ask the drafters the intent and official interpretation of their law? The villain created The One Ring, where he put most of his power. I don't think it would have made Saruman invincible, and, after all, he still would still have had to contend for instance with Treebeard and the Ents, as well as with Sauron. IIRC the idea of Galadriel taking it scared the bejeezus out of him. You are using an out of date browser. No one could even comprehend the length of His existence. How did Saruman become corrupted? 5 Who controlled the Seeing Stone of Minas Anor? Eomer had no clue about rings and quests. Why are non-Western countries siding with China in the UN? Why Did Eru Give Men The Gift Of Death And Not to The Elves too? Saruman was Maia like Sauron. By clicking Accept All, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. Sauron is the primary villain of The Lord Of The Rings. Was he not already the warlord of a growing realm, a commander of orcs and men? First its a lucky hit, now its a super-human with a magical super-sword? Does he use his great voice, enhanced by the One to subjugate the free peoples. It would be a delicate balance. Powered by Discourse, best viewed with JavaScript enabled. Fury of the Gods Special: Shazamily Matters, A Lord of the Rings Theory Hints Tom Bombadil Was in the Movies All Along, 10 Sci-Fi Films That Bombed At The Box Office But Became Cult Classics. For a moment it wavered, looking to the West; but out of the . It seems it was a mistake for the Ring to leave Isildur. Saruman would have made a tasty little morsel for Sauron. In the chapter "the White Rider" (LOTR Book 3, chapter 5), shortly after Ugluk's foray has been defeated, Gandalf gives a detailed analysis of Saruman's motives and Sauron's concerns. If Saruman had taken and claimed the Ring for his own, Sauron would have been aware of it immediately. This is the real reason the eagles question will never die: Its too appetizing for The Lord of the Rings fans. In Unfinished Tales, J.R.R. 2 What would happen if Gandalf had the ring? To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. He also used his Palantir to spy on Sauron. In The Lord of the Rings, the palantri corrupt nearly all who use them. Saruman wants to be Sauron's . If he could obtain or recreate the One Ring for himself, he would be able to rule Middle-earth just like Sauron did. Frodo was a hobbit with one companion, in the heart of Sauron's realm. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Hes lost his way in a search for greater power. This moment was part of an overall mistake, and they could be wrong about this observation, too. Although they did oppose the will of Sauron, while he did not have the one, they were still subject to his will, if he regained it, and all that had been done with them would be revealed. In Tolkiens work, Saruman went to Rhn, shortly after he arrived in Middle-earth, in factjust like the Stranger. He would have been able to control more people, and he would have had a much easier time dominating their wills. The heroes in The Lord of the Rings did everything to keep the One Ring away from Sauron, but what would have happened if Saruman had gotten it? Letter 246 describes a hypothetical confrontation between a hypothetical Ring-bearing Gandalf and Sauron: Confrontation of Sauron alone, unaided, self to self was not contemplated. The orcs likely would have gotten to Isengard the next day or so or met Saruman on the way as he or his image was seen by Aragorn and Company on the evening of the 30th. At the same time, most of the Elves were leaving Middle-earth, and Saruman betrayed everyone and joined Sauron. When Gandalf returned and revealed himself to Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas in Fangorn he said something to the effect of "in a way I'm now Saruman, but you can keep calling me Gandalf." This increased his corruption, though he never lost the possibility of becoming independent with the One Ring. He wanted to inform Saruman the White -- who was head of the White Council -- that he had found Sauron's One Ring hidden away in the Shire. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for LEGO The Lord of the Rings Tower of Orthanc (10237) at the best online prices at eBay! Is Taco Bell healthier than other fast food? He still had the nine, and perhaps some of the seven. I mean, he was supposed to be powerful ANYWAY was he not? Yet, he had something that needed to be done first. In Middle-earth history, it seems likely Saruman arrived before Gandalf did. The content on this site is for entertainment and educational purposes only. However, Gandalf knew that if he being an extremely powerful Maiar just like Sauron had taken the One Ring, he would become no different than the Dark Lord. I think Saruman would have kept the Ring and used its real and symbolic powers to contest with Sauron for control over Middle-earth by building up his own empire. Do new devs get fired if they can't solve a certain bug? 1 What would have happened if Saruman got the ring? Is Gandalf the Gray's power actually limited or did he merely promise to not use it? It does not store any personal data. When Gandalf sent Frodo and the Hobbits to Bree in The Lord of the Rings' opening act, he had the fullest intent of meeting them there. Meanwhile, Gandalf kept an eye on Bilbo and noticed that he was not aging. CK Goksoy - https://www.artstation.com/ckgoksoyIvan Cavini - https://www.ivancavini.comTed Nasmith - https://www.tednasmith.comPeter Xavier Price https://www.deviantart.com/peetAdam Middleton - https://www.artstation.com/adammiddMagali Villeneuve - http://www.magali-villeneuve.comThumbnail Art: \"Saruman\" - (Artist Unknown)\"Black Orcs, Uruk Hai\" - Skinny22\"The Ring\" - Helm1892Art in order of First appearance:Saruman - (Artist Unknown)Saruman with the Palantir kuliszuThe One Ring - benjamin-lindquistMiddle Earth KlaradoxWay to Mordor IribelIsengard Uruk - Tey BartolomeThe Riders of Rohan TurnerMohanSaruman OtisFramptonSaruman the White DanielGovarSauron The Lord of the Rings - William FaucherSaruman fanart - Samthalsabey-ArtSauron - AnotherStranger-MeSaruman the White - YoungPhoenix3191Saruman VihrushkaGandalf the White - Suzanne-Helmigh Saruman AlMaNeGrAFortress of Isengard monpuasajrBlack Orcs, Uruk Hai - Skinny22Helms Deep - Paul LasaineUruk-hai AlexBocaOne Ring to Rule Them All (LOTR) AnatoFinnstarkThe White Rider ralphdamianiEdoras AllrichArtSaruman - Cocoz42The One Ring - LOTR - Jimmy-AppeltSaruman the White adenryTheoden, King of Rohan ArtisAllanRohan peetAmon Din aegeriSaruman JleonardKSaruman jalvMinas Tirith SamscrapbookGandalf the White FacuamThe last march of the Ents GrazianoRoccataniThe Istari - Ivan Cavini(Gwaihir saves Gandalf - Miruna-Lavinia)(Ents TolyanMy)Treason of Isengard lostknightkgSaruman gaberoseartSaruman - KelseyMH33Merry and Pippin icanfeeltheearthturnSaruman of Many Colours TolmanCottonSaruman and the Palantir malibunnySaruman the White pfodraThe Five Istari (Wizards) - (Arist Unknown)Saruman - aquiles-soirBattle of Dale - (Artist Unknown)Sauron NynseiSaruman the White MattDeMinoOrc Warrior - (Artist Unknown)Nazgul StyooNazgul darekzabrockiSauron Jerry VandersteltUruk-Hai JHKrisSauron War of the Last Alliance MattDeMinoSaruman - malara-artWitch-king of Angmar - Vulpes-IbucultaSaruman LychnobiaSaruman - Concept-Art-HouseSauron-As He Sat The One Ring Upon His Finger IngvildSchageArt----------All content falls under fair use: any copying of copyrighted material done for a limited and transformative purpose, such as to comment upon, criticize, or parody a copyrighted work.
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